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Being the cheap person that I am, I'm looking for viable substitutes for mahogany for kerfing, head blocks and tail blocks. I'm considering basswood for linings and tailblocks. And black cherry or red maple for neck blocks. These are all native to Michigan and within reach of my chainsaw.    

What I'm thinking is for a mahogany neck I need to stay with a block that has about the same density as mahogany. According to the chart I have, Black cherry and red maple are pretty close in density to mahogany. Basswood appears to be a good bit lighter though.

Actually I'd like to use the cherry and maple for necks too.

So... what do you "experienced" builders think about these alternate woods?

Thanks in advance,
Kirt

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Horton, MI

Cherry makes a great neck and neck/tailblocks. I don't know the particular species your talking about as we don't have that one over here, but I know it is becoming popular.

I'm currently building an OM with a cherry neck and also head and tailblock. Russell Rose another of the UK builders uses Cherry a lot as well.








Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Black Cherry (Prunus Serotina) and Red Maple (Acer Rubrum) are the scientific names. And as long as I got the book out, American basswood (Tilia americana L.)

I like your laminated block Colin, kinda what I had in mind.

Kirt

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Horton, MI

I use basswood for linings and tailblocks, and I like it better than mahogany for this, to be honest. It's light in weight, yet durable enough for the job.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Kirt, black cherry is described as comparing favorably with mahogany. I think it would be a good find and could make back/side sets as well as necks.Don A39055.8384027778

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Kirt, I've used all of these woods for everything you asked about and liked it. Cherry is a favorite of mine, I use it all the time.
Hey- I am a michigan boy too. You do know about our "Michigan Guild of Luthiers", right?

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Mark Swanson
Swanson Guitars
http://www.MarkSwansonMusic.com

Thanks alot for the input guys.

Michael, I think I've made up my mind on basswood for the linings and tailblock, but it seems a little "dead" for a neck block. If that makes any sense.

Don, thanks that's what I wanted to hear. I have a couple logs of cherry I was hoping to get some backsets out of, but the best I could do was about 7" wide quarter sawn. But now I'm seeing some neck stock. Or, parlor guitars.

Yep Mark, I'm in the guild. I was trying to swing the Big Rapids trip this past weekend but I couldn't make it. I see it was cancelled anyway. So, maybe next time. I'll be watching.

Anybody use any red maple?

Thanks,
Kirt

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Horton, MI

For the neck and tail block, i use laminated black ash pieces.

[QUOTE=Kirt]
Michael, I think I've made up my mind on basswood for the linings and tailblock, but it seems a little "dead" for a neck block. If that makes any sense.

[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't use basswood for neckblock material either, but mostly because I don't think it's hard enough for the job. Mahogany or cherry or somesuch would be a better choice, I feel.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Basswood is a species of lime I think (Tillia sp.) and I've used English lime for a neck block and will again. It is very light and strong and as Colin has pointed out here in the past carves easily in all directions.

Michael - I'm not quite sure what you mean by "not hard enough". It drilled fine and took the neck bolts pressured against it with no problems. If you mean resistance to neck tensions and compressions under string tension then this isn't as big an issue for me as I use cf flying butress braces in my neck blocks.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

[QUOTE=Kirt]
Anybody use any red maple?
[/QUOTE]

I haven't used any yet, but I have a couple of very nice one piece slab sawn red maple boards waiting to be carved into arch top mandolin backs under my bench. I got it from Old Standard, and it is quite popular among mandolin builders. Lynn Dudenbostel is one well known builder has made some spectacular looking mandolins from this wood. As I understand it, hardness and density can be quite different from one piece to the next; the stuff I have is very hard and figured throughout, but much of it is a bit softer.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I have a 1979 Maton Colonial that according to Maton Australia (if interested, go to the museum page and type Colonial in the name field for limited info) has a red maple neck. She is "well played" rather than "played well" and one of very few made between the release date in 1976 and discontinuation of the blackwood model in 1981.

The Colonial was a top shelf guitar and pretty much the marquee of the company prior to the later release of the Maton Messiah in 1979. However, due to popular demand, the Colonial did enjoy a limited re-release in 1982 riding on the reputation built by the earlier guitars. However as these later examples had their back and sides made from Merbau instead of Tassi Blackwood, they were considered inferior and discontinued again that same year.

So, my point in all this ramble is this. If indeed Maton are correct and these earlier examples did have a red maple neck, then they must have really liked the stuff to pass over locally available timber such as QLD Maple or Blackwood in favour of this more costly import to place upon their marquee.

My feeling is that I would be more than happy to have this wood on any guitar. It is fine grained, light, and rock stable. This is despite the fact that the neck on this model was made to a fine slender profile, no carbon fibre rods back then, just a single action truss rod that you access through the end pin hole.

Oh, I love my Maton, she is old and sweet, no longer pretty, rather she's hansom, her characture now defined by the scars of an old lounge lizard, she may not be the bell, yet she still rings

Cheers

Kim

[QUOTE=Kirt] I have a couple logs of cherry I was hoping to get some
backsets out of, but the best I could do was about 7" wide quarter sawn.
[/QUOTE]
Kirt, 7" material is good for 3 piece backs. Even 4 piece backs aren't
unusal.

I have used cherry as the outside plys on laminated necks with good
success.

long

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"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.” -Heraclitus of Ephesus

I have used: Ash, Cherry, Sycamore, Spruce, Cedar, Mahogany, Khya, Sapele, Hickory & Black Walnut for [reverse] linings. I find that cherry can be a bit brittle when bending. Ash and Hickory bend very nicely and rarely break. I use more walnut lately than the others for some reason? I have not noticed any tonal differences in any lining materials although some have commented that they hear differences. I also have found that 16" lengths are easier [for me] to work with. The joint falls behind the waist and isn't very visible from the soundhole.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Thanks so much for the comments.

That maple and cherry is looking better and better. I need to get back out and finish cutting up the cherry log I have. I've been whittling away at it for the past 6 months with my chainsaw. I cut about 36" off at a time, then rip it into quarters and rip off the bark and most of the sapwood. Kinda tricky with only a 16" bar on my chainsaw. I usually burn up a tank full of gas by the time I'm done. By then MY "tank" is empty too. Once I get em quartered I can get them on the bandsaw to finish resawing.

I've been concentrating on sides & backsets up until now. But now I think I'll work on getting some 3 x 4 quartered pieces for 1 piece necks... and some slab sawn pieces for laminated necks.   

It'll be a few years before I can use em, but I think it might be worth the effort.

Thanks again,

Kirt

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Horton, MI

[QUOTE=Dave White
Michael - I'm not quite sure what you mean by "not hard enough". It drilled fine and took the neck bolts pressured against it with no problems.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. Well, I made my pronouncement based on the highly exacting technique of using my thumbnail to put a dent in the wood (which was easy to do). My assumption has been if it deforms to thumbnail pressure that easily, it likely would not work so well as a neck block material. Then again (I remind myself), Spanish cedar suffers from this same problem, yet it is my preferred wood for classical necks with integral Spanish-style heels.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

That's the same test I did Michael, the thumbnail test. I think the softness is a plus though, for linings (spanish cedar). Seems like you'd want a light flexible wood to help free up the top. Course I could be wrong.

Could be the UK version of basswood is a bit harder too.

Kirt

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Horton, MI